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    • Type: Improvement Improvement
    • Status: Closed Closed
    • Priority: Minor Minor
    • Resolution: Fixed
    • Component/s: New Entries
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      social class, social group, "the establishment"

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        Jaume Ortolà i Font added a comment -

        "The establishment" no és una classe social o un estament. És la classe social dominant, no?

        En l'entrada "establishment" es podria afegir:

        establishment
        1. establiment
        2. (the establishment) l'ordre establert, el poder establert, el sistema, la classe social dominant, etc.

        James Risen's new book State of War makes clear Bush has a problem with the establishment. He declared war on the bureaucracy and it is fighting back, writes Edward Alden, the FT's Washington bureau chief.

        Show
        Jaume Ortolà i Font added a comment - "The establishment" no és una classe social o un estament. És la classe social dominant, no? En l'entrada "establishment" es podria afegir: establishment 1. establiment 2. (the establishment) l'ordre establert, el poder establert, el sistema, la classe social dominant, etc. James Risen's new book State of War makes clear Bush has a problem with the establishment. He declared war on the bureaucracy and it is fighting back, writes Edward Alden, the FT's Washington bureau chief.
        Hide
        Gill Martin added a comment -

        I may have this wrong, but I took this meaning of estament from DIEC:

        "A l'Antic Règim, grup social amb certa base jurídica i dotat d'esperit corporatiu, que implicava l'existència d'unes normes per a entrar-hi o sortir-ne."

        "The establishment" means:

        An established social order, as:

        1. A group of people holding most of the power and influence in a government or society. Often used with "the".
        2. A controlling group in a given field of activity. Often used with "the".

        To clarify, the context was a report on what "l'estament militar" said about General Mena's comments. I would translate this into English as "the military establishment".

        Show
        Gill Martin added a comment - I may have this wrong, but I took this meaning of estament from DIEC: "A l'Antic Règim, grup social amb certa base jurídica i dotat d'esperit corporatiu, que implicava l'existència d'unes normes per a entrar-hi o sortir-ne." "The establishment" means: An established social order, as: 1. A group of people holding most of the power and influence in a government or society. Often used with "the". 2. A controlling group in a given field of activity. Often used with "the". To clarify, the context was a report on what "l'estament militar" said about General Mena's comments. I would translate this into English as "the military establishment".
        Hide
        Jaume Ortolà i Font added a comment -

        "L'estament militar" - "the militar establishment" is a good equivalence. It sounds OK to me.

        I think there are differences. "Establishment" can be used alone without a qualifier ("the Establishment"), but "l'estament" needs always an adjective. Besides, "establishment" implies control and power which is not always the case with "estament".

        "The medical establishment": the people controlling the medical profession (I think).
        "L'estament mèdic": all the people working as a doctor. But often disapproving just like in establishment.

        For example:
        Això va produir, en els primers anys, un cert malestar en l'estament mèdic de la ciutat.

        "No teniu dret a decidir, ja us cuidarà l'estament mèdic o clerical fins que les vostres vísceres aguanten, són elles les que compten per a nosaltres, no la vostra voluntat"

        Show
        Jaume Ortolà i Font added a comment - "L'estament militar" - "the militar establishment" is a good equivalence. It sounds OK to me. I think there are differences. "Establishment" can be used alone without a qualifier ("the Establishment"), but "l'estament" needs always an adjective. Besides, "establishment" implies control and power which is not always the case with "estament". "The medical establishment": the people controlling the medical profession (I think). "L'estament mèdic": all the people working as a doctor. But often disapproving just like in establishment. For example: Això va produir, en els primers anys, un cert malestar en l'estament mèdic de la ciutat. "No teniu dret a decidir, ja us cuidarà l'estament mèdic o clerical fins que les vostres vísceres aguanten, són elles les que compten per a nosaltres, no la vostra voluntat"
        Hide
        Linda Oxnard added a comment -

        For now, I have entered 'establishment' in the English-Catalan dictionary just as Jaume suggested.

        In the Catalan-English dictionary, I have entered:

        estament
        social class / social group<catexamp>L'estament militar</catexamp><engexamp>The military establishment</engexamp>

        As regards 'estament mèdic', we need to come to a consensus on this expression before we add it to the dictionary.

        Jaume wrote:
        "The medical establishment": the people controlling the medical profession (I think).
        "L'estament mèdic": all the people working as a doctor. But often disapproving just like in establishment.

        I agree with Jaume, 'the medical establishment' does indeed suggest the people controlling the medical profession.

        'Medical profession' means all the people working as doctors but I don't believe the expression could ever be considered to be disapproving in English. I'm not sure if there is such an expression...

        Show
        Linda Oxnard added a comment - For now, I have entered 'establishment' in the English-Catalan dictionary just as Jaume suggested. In the Catalan-English dictionary, I have entered: estament social class / social group<catexamp>L'estament militar</catexamp><engexamp>The military establishment</engexamp> As regards 'estament mèdic', we need to come to a consensus on this expression before we add it to the dictionary. Jaume wrote: "The medical establishment": the people controlling the medical profession (I think). "L'estament mèdic": all the people working as a doctor. But often disapproving just like in establishment. I agree with Jaume, 'the medical establishment' does indeed suggest the people controlling the medical profession. 'Medical profession' means all the people working as doctors but I don't believe the expression could ever be considered to be disapproving in English. I'm not sure if there is such an expression...
        Hide
        Jaume Ortolà i Font added a comment -

        Crec que no hi ha cap problema en "estament mèdic" - "medical profession". Estament era el nom de les classes socials i professionals en l'"antic règim". Usat avui dia té un ús figurat o formal, no necessàriament pejoratiu. (Corregesc el que he dit abans).

        "Medical establishment" sí que seria més difícil de traduir en català.

        Show
        Jaume Ortolà i Font added a comment - Crec que no hi ha cap problema en "estament mèdic" - "medical profession". Estament era el nom de les classes socials i professionals en l'"antic règim". Usat avui dia té un ús figurat o formal, no necessàriament pejoratiu. (Corregesc el que he dit abans). "Medical establishment" sí que seria més difícil de traduir en català.

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          • Assignee:
            Linda Oxnard
            Reporter:
            Gill Martin
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