DACCO

rogue

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  • Type: Improvement Improvement
  • Status: Open Open
  • Priority: Major Major
  • Resolution: Unresolved
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Description

rogue adj.
brètol

Rogue state. Estat canalla? (En italià i en espanyol ho diuen així. )

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Linda Oxnard added a comment -

Definition of the noun 'rogue' in the OALD:

1 (humorous) a person who behaves badly, but in a harmless way syn scoundrel: He's a bit of a rogue, but very charming.
2 (old-fashioned) a man who is dishonest and immoral syn rascal: a rogues' gallery (= a collection of pictures of criminals)

Definition in the CALD:

1 OLD-FASHIONED HUMOROUS a person who behaves badly but who you still like:
"Come here, you little rogue!" chuckled my uncle.
The women all think he's a loveable old rogue.
2 OLD-FASHIONED a dishonest or immoral man

Firstly, I agree with the CALD that 'rogue' is fairly old-fashioned in both senses (I suspect some may disagree).
Secondly, I prefer the CALD's definition for meaning 1 as a 'loveable rogue' may well find their actions to be harmful even if it wasn't their intention (OALD - 'behaves badly but in a harmless way'). For any sci-fi fans, a classic example of a loveable rogue would be Han Solo from Star Wars.
Would 'brètol' cover meaning 2 rather than meaning 1? I ask because, if this is the case, I think we need to also add an equivalent for meaning 1.

As to 'rogue state', we would need to add this to an adjectival entry.

OALD:
1 (of an animal) living apart from the main group, and possibly dangerous
2 behaving in a different way from other similar people or things, often causing damage: a rogue gene * a rogue police officer

CALD:
1. behaving in ways that are not expected or not normal, often in a destructive way:
a rogue state, rogue cells
2 [before noun] SPECIALIZED A rogue animal is a fierce, dangerous animal that lives apart from the rest of its group

Personally, I do not think we need to add meaning 1 from the OALD (meaning 2 in the CALD). As the CALD suggests, this usage is somewhat specialized. What, however, might we put for the meaning 'behaving in a different way from other similar people or things, often causing damage'? In the case of a rogue person (rogue policeman, scientist etc.) perhaps 'inconformista' or 'dissident' (though the sense of 'often causing damage' is missing)? As to 'rogue genes or cells'? Any ideas???

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Linda Oxnard added a comment - Definition of the noun 'rogue' in the OALD: 1 (humorous) a person who behaves badly, but in a harmless way syn scoundrel: He's a bit of a rogue, but very charming. 2 (old-fashioned) a man who is dishonest and immoral syn rascal: a rogues' gallery (= a collection of pictures of criminals) Definition in the CALD: 1 OLD-FASHIONED HUMOROUS a person who behaves badly but who you still like: "Come here, you little rogue!" chuckled my uncle. The women all think he's a loveable old rogue. 2 OLD-FASHIONED a dishonest or immoral man Firstly, I agree with the CALD that 'rogue' is fairly old-fashioned in both senses (I suspect some may disagree). Secondly, I prefer the CALD's definition for meaning 1 as a 'loveable rogue' may well find their actions to be harmful even if it wasn't their intention (OALD - 'behaves badly but in a harmless way'). For any sci-fi fans, a classic example of a loveable rogue would be Han Solo from Star Wars. Would 'brètol' cover meaning 2 rather than meaning 1? I ask because, if this is the case, I think we need to also add an equivalent for meaning 1. As to 'rogue state', we would need to add this to an adjectival entry. OALD: 1 (of an animal) living apart from the main group, and possibly dangerous 2 behaving in a different way from other similar people or things, often causing damage: a rogue gene * a rogue police officer CALD: 1. behaving in ways that are not expected or not normal, often in a destructive way: a rogue state, rogue cells 2 [before noun] SPECIALIZED A rogue animal is a fierce, dangerous animal that lives apart from the rest of its group Personally, I do not think we need to add meaning 1 from the OALD (meaning 2 in the CALD). As the CALD suggests, this usage is somewhat specialized. What, however, might we put for the meaning 'behaving in a different way from other similar people or things, often causing damage'? In the case of a rogue person (rogue policeman, scientist etc.) perhaps 'inconformista' or 'dissident' (though the sense of 'often causing damage' is missing)? As to 'rogue genes or cells'? Any ideas???
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Jaume Ortolà i Font added a comment -

En el Termcat hi ha rogue planet (planeta errant).

He donat una ullada als sinònims de brètol: belitre, bandarra, galifardeu, bergant, bergantell, brivall, canalla. La majoria són passats de moda i tots poden usar-se en sentit humorístic. En català hi ha la tendència a fer servir aquestes paraules per a referir-se als adolescents o als xiquets, i moltes han acabat convertint-se en sinònims de noi o adolescent: galifardeu, bergant, bergantell, brivall, canalla (conjunt de nens).

En el diccionari podríem posar aquests sinònims que cobreixen els dos significats:

rogue adj
bergant, brètol, brivall, belitre.

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Jaume Ortolà i Font added a comment - En el Termcat hi ha rogue planet (planeta errant). He donat una ullada als sinònims de brètol: belitre, bandarra, galifardeu, bergant, bergantell, brivall, canalla. La majoria són passats de moda i tots poden usar-se en sentit humorístic. En català hi ha la tendència a fer servir aquestes paraules per a referir-se als adolescents o als xiquets, i moltes han acabat convertint-se en sinònims de noi o adolescent: galifardeu, bergant, bergantell, brivall, canalla (conjunt de nens). En el diccionari podríem posar aquests sinònims que cobreixen els dos significats: rogue adj bergant, brètol, brivall, belitre.
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Linda Oxnard added a comment -

In English you would generally refer to a child as a 'scamp', a 'rascal' or a 'scallywag' (more entries for the dictionary!) 'Rogue' and 'scoundrel' are the words you might use for an adult.

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Linda Oxnard added a comment - In English you would generally refer to a child as a 'scamp', a 'rascal' or a 'scallywag' (more entries for the dictionary!) 'Rogue' and 'scoundrel' are the words you might use for an adult.

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